Author Topic: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????  (Read 22228 times)

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Offline Ztruker

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Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« on: October 14, 2012, 05:01:41 pm »
Several of the sites I work at will not allow the use of WR-AIO outside of their respective malware areas because of the inclusion of ComboFix and TDSS Rootkit Remover. Both are considered too dangerous for people to use without knowledgeable supervision and I have to agree with them as I've seen several threads where unsupervised use has made a computer inoperable and had to be reinstalled. I wish I had links to those threads but I don't.

Anyway, any chance there can be two versions? One with those programs on Step 1 and one without? If I could tell people to download the one without then I would be allowed to provided a nice canned speech all can use on those sites for WR-AIO.

Thanks
Rich
The only thing that is certain is that nothing is certain - Heraclitus.

Offline Shane

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2012, 01:07:34 pm »
I dont want to do 2 version because then I have to do twice the work for every update.

So instead why don't I just change that step? But the question is how do I change it? Links to a page instead with info?

The goal of that step is for users to understand that if the system is infected that running the repairs wont help or might make things worse. So my idea was to give them some links to good programs in case they dont know what to run.

I am all for changing it as long as the end goal is still there :wink:

Shane

Offline neroilo

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2012, 01:42:47 pm »
Here there is a comprehensive list of  the best free anti-malware scanners:
http://www.techsupportalert.com/content/probably-best-free-security-list-world.htm?page=0,2

In particular, I'd recommend the use of some portable antivirus/antimalware like Microsoft Safety Scanner and Superantispyware.

Offline Shane

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2012, 01:47:12 pm »
Nice link, but there is a down fall.

The list is so big imagine a user not sure what to do sees a big list and has no clue what to run. Thats why I had those few in there to begin with.

I want the normal user, who doesn't really know much about scanning for infections to run the right tools to get them cleaned up, if they are even infected.

I really like tdsskiller since it is one of the few tools to find that dang rootkit. I never had any trouble with it so I am surprised others have. Combofix I can understand, it is on total auto and you have no control.

There are so many links I could give the user, some tools find things that others dont. I am not sure what is best to have there, if anything.

Shane

Offline neroilo

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2012, 01:50:51 pm »
There are so many links I could give the user, some tools find things that others dont. I am not sure what is best to have there, if anything.

In this case, there is a quick selection link of rootkit scanners here:
http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-rootkit-scanner-remover.htm#Quick_Selection_Guide

Offline Shane

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2012, 01:53:30 pm »
Not bad, I wonder if a rootkit link is the best to have? rootkits are the biggest pain to clean and so might be best to point users to that and say malwarebytes.

Shane

Offline neroilo

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2012, 02:29:49 pm »
Personally I think the best choice for a novice user would be a portable antivirus or a portable antispyware, so there is no need to use an installer or a permanent internet connection.
About antirootkits, I never used them to clean an infected system, but it could be just luck.

Writing your quick list may be a good idea too.

Offline Shane

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2012, 02:31:16 pm »
I know what I will do.

I will leave malwarebytes and avast on there, then have a 3rd option for rootkits that will point to a page on my site. On that page will be links to sites and help for finding rootkits.

This way I can have multiple sites for people to go to and try including the ones you posted.

This way I can change and update that page without having to make updates to the program :wink:

Shane

Offline chris635

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2012, 03:24:47 pm »
Hey Shane

   I agree combo fix should be removed. It's a great piece of software, but you have to know what your doing ( After several re installs I finally learned how to use it lol). One extra program you could add is super-anti spyware, it also has a portable version you can rename just in case malware tries to keep it from running, the link is below check it out and see what you think.

http://superantispyware.com/

It's free with out real time (if you want that you have to pay for it). I use this on my laptop when I'm out of town for work. It's pretty light on resources. It works great for root-kits and Trojans.



Chris
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Offline Shane

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2012, 03:31:23 pm »
Here is the page I made and this will link in the program.

http://www.tweaking.com/articles/pages/virus_malware_amp_rootkit_cleanup_links,1.html

Thoughts?

Shane

Offline Ztruker

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2012, 06:27:06 pm »
WOW!!!!

Talk about being responsive. Thanks Shane.

So Step 1 would no longer have ComboFix or TDSS Killer on it and instead would point to the web page you posted? If so I think that would work. Let me run it by the malware gurus and see what they say.
Rich
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Offline Shane

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2012, 06:57:16 pm »
Yeah I post a screen shot of the changes in the post before yours, it is done, just waiting for feedback before I put it out :wink:

Shane

Offline Ztruker

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2012, 07:09:44 pm »
That looks great. Let's wait a bit and see if I get any response from some of the malware gurus though.
Rich
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Offline Gamezertruth

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« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 06:41:57 am by G-hot »

Offline Digerati

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2012, 08:57:05 am »
I personally see no reason Malware Removal folks should be involved (unless they help on the technical side too) or be concerned (once Combo-fix is removed). But I do wonder if you shouldn't narrow your focus by ensuring this is a "Windows Repair" tool and not intended as a security/malware removal or prevention tool too.

I agree that TDSS Rootkit Remover is an excellent tool and could stay as I believe the odds of further damage by an inexperienced user is minimal - worst case. But while I would argue "the normal user" could safely use TDSS, Rich (Ztruker) is right and at some sites the MR folks might (as they do with ComboFix) balk at it being suggested outside the (typically closed) Malware Removal forums.

And to that, Rich and I go way back and visit many forums on the "technical side" (HW, Windows, Networking, etc. - not malware removal). And sadly it is often the case where MR controls, or desires control of every and anything to do with malware - whether it be prevention or removal - because of the chance the untrained "normal user" may cause more harm than good. Thus only certified malware removal folks who completed an on-line MR course can suggest or manage their use. Certainly, HJT in the hands of the too-eager did result in dead systems, way too often. But that was awhile ago and when you are in the trenches surrounded by infected machines, it is hard to believe the vast majority of the 1 billion Windows machines are NOT infected. And many that are broken have a corrupted driver, a failed update, an incorrect setting somewhere. Or a real hardware problem - totally unrelated to anything malicious. Or sadly, suffered collateral damage from deployed malware, or the malware removal process itself. Or an over-eager user trying to free up too much space.

So while TDSS RKR is a great tool, not sure I would call it a Windows Repair tool. And to that, I am not crazy about specifying a specific anti-malware solution. I like how you say, "(In case you need one)" - but I think, if you really think it necessary to address security in this "Windows Repair" tool, just recommending to "get a good anti-malware program and keep it updated" prevents any unwanted opposition/tangents over which is who's favorite (ie, generic, like Step 1 of your instructions).

I see your tool as a "consolidated" Microsoft FixIt tool. A good thing! But I truly believe if you want the greatest acceptance of your tool (in terms of folks like Rich and me recommending it on the technical side of the forums), you need to narrow your focus to Windows Repair and remove any context to security and malware. JMHO.
Bill (AFE7Ret)
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Offline ChrisE

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2012, 10:27:16 am »
I have a couple things that have me wonder a little about that list, specifically that Spybot S&D is not listed in the malware section at all, and Malware Bytes while not a dedicated rootkit remover true, is not listed under rootkit removal.

Edit: Although it does have a different sites Spybot Portable version of it under portables.

Yes it's not dedicated to it, and it is not fool proof but it definately does detect and remove a good number of rootkit's in addition to the other general malware.

That said and just to add my two cents to what's been said already, I have personally found the fact that Windows Repair AIO is made just the way it is (though I can definately agree with having ComboFix, and to a much lesser extent TDSSKiller not on the stage 1 page for general use purposes) to be a great boon.

I work on a number of issues ranging from internet troubleshooting to various computer repair issues & virus removal, some locally but a large part remotely.  I've used Windows Repair AIO on a good number of them, having a tool that can deal with both standard software issues as well as more malware related ones is very handy.

Of course on the other side of the coin I can also see where coming from just recommending a general user to use the tool that could be problematic at times.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 10:39:39 am by ChrisE »

Offline chris635

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2012, 11:17:10 am »
Digerati may have a pretty good point. You might want to keep it with out any specific anti-malware programs. How about just a link to the tweaking.com website with some anti-malware removal suggestions to try. I'm fine with either it way. I guess it just depends on the target audience your trying to appeal to as a whole or a specific group. Are you trying to reach the average user or tech's or both? I get the feeling it's more for the average user, which is perfectly fine, but I also get the since you would like tech's to use it as well....soooo why not just a link? Like I said, I'm fine with it either way. Why not appeal to both the tech's and the average user, a compromise if you will.


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Offline Shane

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2012, 01:14:57 pm »
First a little back ground. :cheesy:

When I started tweaking.com I needed programs to put up on it. I had plans to make a repair tool for my pcwintech site but never got around to it, didn't think any one would use it. But when I started this site I decided to get it going. So it became one of the first programs for the site.

So when I designed it, it was just me. I had no input from anyone on how to do it. I run a computer repair company here and decided to make it the way I would want to use it on my customers machines. But I know users, there are things that should be done before any repairs are done. So that is why I made the steps. I had no clue the program would be used and picked up like it has, very exciting.

So in the last update I added the word "optional" to the tabs. I had some users thinking those where the repairs. I had other users who though the system file checker was part of my program and blaming my program for SFC asking for their Windows xp cd! So I am hoping the word optional will help with that.

So for the step 1 on the virus removals I simply listed some programs that I use and have good luck with. That is as far as that thought process went for step 1.

Now the program is being used by a lot of sites and places. So it is time for a change in the interface to reflect that.

If I have other websites helping users with malware and virus cleanup and they send them to my repair program, then my repair program shows them other tools to run for that then that gets in the way of what the other site is trying to do to help them. At the same time I need a way for a user who went to my program directly to know how important it is to make sure the system is clean of infections.

The other steps such as checking the drive with chkdsk is important as well, because when setting file permissions if the file system is messed up it will create problems.

But as for step 1 I think it is a good change. Just to have a link to the site that I can keep updated that basically points people to different locations on how to get their system clean.

Have to keep in mind that I have to have it where a common user can run it and if they follow directions they use it properly without needing someone to walk them through. So as long as the end goal is achieved then I don't mind making what ever changes t the interface that are needed :wink:

Shane

Offline Ztruker

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2012, 05:06:41 pm »
Shane, I think it's a great program and vastly simplifies the repair of some very common Windows problems.  That's why I created a canned response I was going to make available at WhatTheTech.com and that is when I ran into resistance from the malware folks and the site Admin.

I like the new layout and I think it will be acceptable to the malware community. When the canned is okayed, I'll post a link here or I can send it to you to look at.

Keep up the good work. You're two for two as far as I'm concerned with this and registry backup.
Rich
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Offline Shane

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2012, 06:34:16 pm »
Let me know if they like the new UI and I will release it :wink:

Shane

Offline ChrisE

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2012, 07:03:54 am »
Just one more thought on the virus removal tab if I may, having a link you can update is good, it still be would be good to at least have a couple programs still listed in addition to it (such as malware bytes and possibly another not so potentially dangerous one).

I just think this for the fact that there will be (and I have helped a good number) of people who are not online or able to get online at the time when they run the program, maybe they are working with someone helping them, or maybe they were looking up a program to help them on another computer and transferred it over, or maybe they just went into safe mode w/o networking after getting it.

Those are my thoughts anyhow, changing it to just a link which needs an active connection I could see as causing issues both from people that can't get online or might skip the stage if it's just a link (the original worry about users not realizing or thinking virus scans should be done before running repairs)

Offline Shane

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2012, 10:13:27 am »
The program always had links to the other programs, I just removed the links to the more dangerous tools.

Having their setups with the program wouldn't be a good idea as they would become outdated pretty fast and I would have to keep updating my setup with their new ones. :wink:

Shane

Offline Shane

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2012, 09:19:17 pm »
Ztruker,

any word yet? Once I know they like the changes I will put the new version out :wink:

Shane

Offline Ztruker

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2012, 03:53:59 pm »
Still waiting for a response. I'll send a PM.
Rich
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Offline Ztruker

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Re: Windows Repair AIO - possible two editions????
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2012, 06:31:44 pm »
Got a "looks good" form the malware folk so please go ahead and release it.

Thanks again Shane
Rich
The only thing that is certain is that nothing is certain - Heraclitus.