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Main Forum => General Computer Support => Topic started by: mrwoof on November 15, 2018, 01:05:16 PM

Title: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 15, 2018, 01:05:16 PM
W8.1 Freezing.
Symptoms :
W8.1 runs for 3 minutes and then freezes. access to the cursor, nothing else. Forced restart and see a change in log in detail. Previously I used a 4 digit pin, now it needed my hotmail password.
Checked :
Task Manager, no wild processes & all appeared normal. Page file, System managed. Ran System Restore which failed to detect previous snapshots. Ran SFC Scan now, OS froze after 20%. 
Then time to try Tweaking Repair tool, launched app then into Safe Mode and again system froze after 3 to 4 minutes.
 Now this something new. Thinking possible hardware now. Fan kicking as normal, not running hot. So reseated the SSD drive and Ram and did the battery out / hold power button. No improvement.
Digging deeper, with multiple restarts,  checked Disc Management and then  System Restore which showed 2 entries for C, one label "System" the other "Missing". (See Attach 1)  While trying Configure on the missing C drive an error indicated wrong path. (Se Attach 2)
So the only recent change was an auto upgrade to Malwarebytes trail, have disabled that on start up. No change.
So at this point I'm lost! Hope I have detailed the issue so someone (boggin) can help with diagnosis. 
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 15, 2018, 02:04:47 PM
What do you have plugged into the E: drive ?
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 15, 2018, 02:50:11 PM
4 Gb USB stick (to try and copy data). Same behavior when USB removed.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 15, 2018, 03:01:01 PM
I was hoping that as the cause because they can confuse the system.

I've never seen this error before.

See what a chkdsk /f makes of it, if it will run.

That would default to check the C: drive which may be a problem.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 15, 2018, 03:19:03 PM
Hmm, The intensive disk activity for the check is unnecessary wear on the SSD, and is generally recognised as a bad idea. Though I plan on swapping out the SSD, put it in a USB enclosure to another laptop (to grab data ).I have the original factory fitted drive which I cloned to my current SSD several months ago. I will fit that tomo and will see if that is stable. Interesting...thanks for your time and will keep you posted.
Any thoughts about the 2 "C" drives detected in Sys Restore ?
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 15, 2018, 03:33:40 PM
The System is what gives you the advanced boot options, but it isn't usually listed as in C: - perhaps that is what has screwed things up.

A chkdsk doesn't add unnecessary wear to a SSD as it reads more than it writes, whereas a defrag would impact a SSD.

While a SSD is supposed to be self repairing, a chkdsk which does the same thing, may be more positive in repairing the file structure.

I'd give it a try.

https://www.datanumen.com/blogs/safe-run-chkdsk-solid-state-drive-ssd/

Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 15, 2018, 03:50:36 PM
Yep, got it:
Chk disc log:
Checking file system on C: Volume label is Acer. Stage 1: Examining basic file system structure ... 623360 file records processed. File verification completed. 7560 large file records processed. 0 bad file records processed. Stage 2: Examining file name linkage ... 692374 index entries processed. Index verification completed. Stage 3: Examining security descriptors ... Security descriptor verification completed. 34508 data files processed. CHKDSK is verifying Usn Journal... 41641352 USN bytes processed. Usn Journal verification completed. Windows has scanned the file system and found no problems. No further action is required. 214376447 KB total disk space. 64085828 KB in 169168 files. 119700 KB in 34509 indexes. 741751 KB in use by the system. 65536 KB occupied by the log file. 149429168 KB available on disk. 4096 bytes in each allocation unit. 53594111 total allocation units on disk. 37357292 allocation units available on disk. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Stage 1: Examining basic file system structure ... Stage 2: Examining file name linkage ... Stage 3: Examining security descriptors ... Windows has scanned the file system and found no problems. No further action is required. 
   00830900A61B0300C6E4050000000000B50100002E0000000000000000000000
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 15, 2018, 03:54:32 PM
I was hoping that would have produced at least some info.

Is System Protection still showing the same file structure ?
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 15, 2018, 04:02:41 PM
yes, will leave it tonight.
cheers !
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 15, 2018, 04:03:43 PM
I'll ask jpm to have a look at this for you.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 16, 2018, 05:45:06 AM
After sleeping on it, to eliminate a memory fault, I ran mdsched.exe in a preboot environment and no errors found. This process ran for "several minutes". I attch a fresh msinfo32 file to assist in possible diagnosis.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 16, 2018, 08:38:37 AM
I noticed from your msinfo32 that you have Macrium Reflect - do you have any images you can restore from ?

Your Disk Management shows your partitions to be where they are supposed to be, but I was wondering if after creating a system image whether you could delete the System 400MB partition and reinstate it by one of the methods in this article - https://www.easeus.com/partition-manager-software/system-reserved-partition-recovery.html#part3

The bootrec cmds may be sufficient.

Hopefully with that path removed, it may recognize your C: drive.

I haven't heard back from jpm yet.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 16, 2018, 08:59:35 AM
I considered reinstating the Macrium or a Refresh however was concerned that a sys freeze during that process would wreck everything.
I'l check the link you sent but I'm at the edge of my knowledge here. I have a W 8.1 ISO-(feb 18) A disc image file 3.4 Gb on standby !
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 16, 2018, 09:16:42 AM
When you restore with a Macrium image you are booting outside of Windows, so you shouldn't face whatever is corrupted.

Can you go Start - type eventvwr and press enter when it comes up.

When Event Viewer opens, ensure Event Viewer (Local) is highlighted in the left pane - if it isn't, just click on it.

When it has read the data click on Error then on View All Instances of This Event in the lower right pane then look for date and time stamped errors when for when your system froze.

Clicking on any will give a brief reason in the pane below.

If you think any are relevant, click on Copy/Copy details as text in the lower right pane then right click in your reply box and select Paste.

If you have any listed for Critical other than Event ID 41 then post those as well.

The ID 41 is when you will have power shutdown.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 16, 2018, 10:34:38 AM
Event viewer threw up the unexpected. Latest repeated entries on 2 fronts.
1. Source Printer service  ID 370
2. Source WMI                       ID   4
I'v attched a raw txt file  with details revealed. The last error listed has scores of entries.

I see the printer errors are a windows "thing" no reference to the suit of Cannon software.
So I stopped & disabled the spooler service to see if any improvement.....nada !

Also attch the DXDiag log as I'm in the company of one who can understand these.



Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 16, 2018, 01:54:36 PM
From what I've found on that WMI error, that would seem to be the problem.

I've copied & pasted these steps from an article which has resolved that error.

Open a Command Prompt (Admin) and follow the steps to rebuild the WMI Repository and then check the results.

 a. Disable and stop the WMI service.
 sc config winmgmt start= disabled
 net stop winmgmt
 b. At a command prompt (cmd), change to the WBEM folder.
 cd %windir%\system32\wbem
 c. Rename the repository folder
 rename repository repository.old
 d. Re-enable the WMI service.
 sc config winmgmt start= auto
 e. Run the following command to manually recompile all of the default WMI .mof files and .mfl files
 cd %windir%\system32\wbem
 for /f %s in ('dir /b *.mof *.mfl') do mofcomp %s
 f. Reboot the system.
 shutdown /r /t 00

You can copy & paste the long one to avoid any typos.

The Windows Repair program would probably have repaired this had it been able to run.

I would normally advise to create a restore point before executing complex cmds but in your case, that isn't possible.

If there's still a problem then the WMI may need resyncing which you can do with these two cmds -

regsvr32 wmisvc.dll

winmgmt /resyncperf

shutdown /r /t 00

and see what things are like after the reboot.

EDITED to split a cmd.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: jpm on November 16, 2018, 02:54:24 PM
https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/solutions/ht078705
according to Lenovo (found with a search) this can happen when you do a system restore. The fix is to unprotect the missing version and delete it.   I've never done it, but it makes sense.
 
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 16, 2018, 03:08:39 PM
Ran the complete cmds, however:
e. Run the following command to manually recompile all of the default WMI .mof files and .mfl files
 cd %windir%\system32\wbem for /f %s in ('dir /b *.mof *.mfl') do mofcomp %s

returned "File not found".

I repeated the full process and no change.
Below is a raw copy of latest event viewer, First 5 "Warning" then next entry, scores of "Error".


Log Name:      Application
Source:        Microsoft-Windows-WMI
Date:          16/11/2018 22:36:51
Event ID:      63
Task Category: None
Level:         Warning
Keywords:     
User:          SYSTEM
Computer:      Acer
Description:
A provider, dsccore, has been registered in the Windows Management Instrumentation namespace root\Microsoft\Windows\DesiredStateConfiguration to use the LocalSystem account. This account is privileged and the provider may cause a security violation if it does not correctly impersonate user requests.
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-WMI" Guid="{1EDEEE53-0AFE-4609-B846-D8C0B2075B1F}" />
    <EventID>63</EventID>
    <Version>2</Version>
    <Level>3</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Opcode>0</Opcode>
    <Keywords>0x8000000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2018-11-16T22:36:51.452232000Z" />
    <EventRecordID>20520</EventRecordID>
    <Correlation ActivityID="{D7E9E239-7DFC-0006-53E2-E9D7FC7DD401}" />
    <Execution ProcessID="888" ThreadID="896" />
    <Channel>Application</Channel>
    <Computer>Acer</Computer>
    <Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
  </System>
  <UserData>
    <data_0x8000003F xmlns="http://manifests.microsoft.com/win/2006/windows/WMI">
      <Provider>dsccore</Provider>
      <Namespace>root\Microsoft\Windows\DesiredStateConfiguration</Namespace>
    </data_0x8000003F>
  </UserData>
</Event>
..........................
Log Name:      Application
Source:        Microsoft-Windows-WMI
Date:          16/11/2018 22:36:51
Event ID:      63
Task Category: None
Level:         Warning
Keywords:     
User:          SYSTEM
Computer:      Acer
Description:
A provider, dsccore, has been registered in the Windows Management Instrumentation namespace root\Microsoft\Windows\DesiredStateConfiguration to use the LocalSystem account. This account is privileged and the provider may cause a security violation if it does not correctly impersonate user requests.
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-WMI" Guid="{1EDEEE53-0AFE-4609-B846-D8C0B2075B1F}" />
    <EventID>63</EventID>
    <Version>2</Version>
    <Level>3</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Opcode>0</Opcode>
    <Keywords>0x8000000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2018-11-16T22:36:51.452232000Z" />
    <EventRecordID>20520</EventRecordID>
    <Correlation ActivityID="{D7E9E239-7DFC-0006-53E2-E9D7FC7DD401}" />
    <Execution ProcessID="888" ThreadID="896" />
    <Channel>Application</Channel>
    <Computer>Acer</Computer>
    <Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
  </System>
  <UserData>
    <data_0x8000003F xmlns="http://manifests.microsoft.com/win/2006/windows/WMI">
      <Provider>dsccore</Provider>
      <Namespace>root\Microsoft\Windows\DesiredStateConfiguration</Namespace>
    </data_0x8000003F>
  </UserData>
</Event>                                   x5
########################################

Log Name:      Application
Source:        Microsoft-Windows-WMI
Date:          16/11/2018 22:36:51
Event ID:      4
Task Category: None
Level:         Error
Keywords:     
User:          SYSTEM
Computer:      Acer
Description:
Error 0x80041002 encountered when trying to load MOF C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\WBEM\EN-GB\FILETRACE.MFL while recovering .MOF file marked with autorecover.
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-WMI" Guid="{1EDEEE53-0AFE-4609-B846-D8C0B2075B1F}" />
    <EventID>4</EventID>
    <Version>2</Version>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Opcode>0</Opcode>
    <Keywords>0x8000000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2018-11-16T22:36:51.186591600Z" />
    <EventRecordID>20515</EventRecordID>
    <Correlation ActivityID="{D7E9E239-7DFC-0006-53E2-E9D7FC7DD401}" />
    <Execution ProcessID="888" ThreadID="896" />
    <Channel>Application</Channel>
    <Computer>Acer</Computer>
    <Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
  </System>
  <UserData>
    <data_0x8000003F xmlns="http://manifests.microsoft.com/win/2006/windows/WMI">
      <Error>0x80041002</Error>
      <MOF>C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\WBEM\EN-GB\FILETRACE.MFL</MOF>
    </data_0x8000003F>
  </UserData>
</Event>
''''''''''''''''
+ System

  - Provider

   [ Name]  Microsoft-Windows-WMI
   [ Guid]  {1EDEEE53-0AFE-4609-B846-D8C0B2075B1F}
 
   EventID 4
 
   Version 2
 
   Level 2
 
   Task 0
 
   Opcode 0
 
   Keywords 0x8000000000000000
 
  - TimeCreated

   [ SystemTime]  2018-11-16T22:36:51.186591600Z
 
   EventRecordID 20515
 
  - Correlation

   [ ActivityID]  {D7E9E239-7DFC-0006-53E2-E9D7FC7DD401}
 
  - Execution

   [ ProcessID]  888
   [ ThreadID]  896
 
   Channel Application
 
   Computer Acer
 
  - Security

   [ UserID]  S-1-5-18
 

- UserData

  - data_0x8000003F

   Error 0x80041002
 
   MOF C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\WBEM\EN-GB\FILETRACE.MFL
 
 
#################################################



onwards...
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 16, 2018, 03:12:50 PM
My error in joining up these cmds -

cd %windir%\system32\wbem for /f %s in ('dir /b *.mof *.mfl') do mofcomp %s

Which should have been split as -

cd %windir%\system32\wbem

for /f %s in ('dir /b *.mof *.mfl') do mofcomp %s

But jpm has found a more precise solution for you to try.

Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 16, 2018, 04:15:52 PM
ran the full new improved cmds, sadly,the repair tool froze in safe mode., this time it got up to Repair Job 7 (previously never past 3) up to "Running Repair under user a/c.
In the cmd box last entries read:
Registering 340 files
ERROR: The system was unable to find the specified registry key or value.  this is repeated 5 times then all still.

Don't know if this detail means anything to you !!!
Looking for my prayer mat to enjoy jmp's input.
I'l run repair again meanwhile.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 17, 2018, 02:03:39 AM
I noticed in Windows Error Reporting in your msinfo32 there was one reported for IE and Explorer.exe.

Try jpm's solution to get your system protection back to where it should be then try the Windows Repair program again and if necessary, uncheck the box for the IE repair.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 17, 2018, 03:59:02 AM
I was a bit pushed for time when I made my last reply and forgot to ask, can you check Event Viewer to see if you are still getting the WMI Event ID 4 after running those cmds.

You can reinstall IE by going Start - type appwiz.cpl and press enter when it comes up.

Click on Turn Windows features on or off then uncheck the box for IE - OK then reboot, but it's best if you have another browser installed first.

I use Firefox as my spare browser - https://www.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/new/

Go back into Programs and Features etc. and re-check the box for IE - OK and then see if you still have problems with that repair in Windows Repair.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 17, 2018, 05:44:46 AM
Good morning. Re . event error 4 : Error 0x8004401e encountered when trying to load MOF C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\WBEM\EN-US\PROFILEASSOCIATIONPROVIDER.MFL while recovering .MOF file marked with autorecover.  415 entries.
Win features uncheck IE presented error 0x8000FFFF & failed to complete (I use Firefox)

Steps I have taken meanwhile ;
I turned off the "C" missing drive in Sys restore and it disappears, no change in behavior.
 I found a registry back up dated 2nd Nov and applied that, 2 win updates detected & successfully applied reboot however no change.
I did find a new batch of 1D 10 errors ;

id 10
The Appx operation 'RegisterPackageAsync' on 'Microsoft.ZuneVideo_2015.1023.2128.1509_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe' failed for user 'decode41@hotmail.com' - error 0x80070003: Opening file from location: C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.ZuneVideo_2015.1023.2128.1509_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe\AppxMetadata\AppxBundleManifest.xml failed with error: The system cannot find the path specified.
.. (Error: Package could not be opened.)

Log Name:      Microsoft-Windows-AppReadiness/Admin
Source:        Microsoft-Windows-AppReadiness
Date:          17/11/2018 00:57:25
Event ID:      10
Task Category: (6)
Level:         Error
Keywords:      (128)
User:          SYSTEM
Computer:      Acer
Description:
The Appx operation 'RegisterPackageAsync' on 'Microsoft.Reader_2018.110.1641.4237_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe' failed for user 'decode41@hotmail.com' - error 0x80070003: Opening file from location: C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.Reader_2018.110.1641.4237_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe\AppxMetadata\AppxBundleManifest.xml failed with error: The system cannot find the path specified.
.. (Error: Package could not be opened.)
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-AppReadiness" Guid="{F0BE35F8-237B-4814-86B5-ADE51192E503}" />
    <EventID>10</EventID>
    <Version>0</Version>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>6</Task>
    <Opcode>0</Opcode>
    <Keywords>0x8000000000000080</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2018-11-17T00:57:25.393624200Z" />
    <EventRecordID>220</EventRecordID>
    <Correlation ActivityID="{66C018A6-7E10-0000-E918-C066107ED401}" />
    <Execution ProcessID="2888" ThreadID="2556" />
    <Channel>Microsoft-Windows-AppReadiness/Admin</Channel>
    <Computer>Acer</Computer>
    <Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data Name="User">decode41@hotmail.com</Data>
    <Data Name="Operation">RegisterPackageAsync</Data>
    <Data Name="PackageId">Microsoft.Reader_2018.110.1641.4237_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe</Data>
    <Data Name="Result">-2147009296</Data>
    <Data Name="Error">error 0x80070003: Opening file from location: C:\Program Files\WindowsApps\Microsoft.Reader_2018.110.1641.4237_neutral_~_8wekyb3d8bbwe\AppxMetadata\AppxBundleManifest.xml failed with error: The system cannot find the path specified.
.</Data>
  </EventData>
</Event>
Remind me what is jpm's solution to get your system protection back please.
Am I right to assume that "windows repair" refers to the tweaking repair tool?
Tell me are you UK based (time zones)
onwards,



Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 17, 2018, 07:20:34 AM
Yes, I am in the UK.

I've never seen that error before when unchecking IE.

Windows Repair does refer to Tweaking.com's repair program.

It can resolve WMI and App errors but can you open a Command Prompt (Admin) and enter these cmds to see what they report.

dism /online /cleanup-image /startcomponentcleanup

dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth

sfc /scannow
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 17, 2018, 09:26:59 AM
Depending upon what those report but have not resolved your problems and your computer no longer freezes, you could perform a repair install which doesn't affect your personal stuff or installed programs.

Check Event Viewer after a reboot to see what errors there are now.

You've said that you have a Win 8.1 install disk but not if you also have the product key for your machine.

The first article will show you how to see your product key so that you can copy it down and the second will walk you through a repair install.

https://winaero.com/blog/how-to-get-the-windows-product-key-without-using-third-party-software/

https://www.intowindows.com/how-to-repair-windows-8-1-installation/
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 17, 2018, 03:38:06 PM
Sorry for the break in communication, life getting in the way.
Am unable to complete the DISM Cmds & I see Win system error reporting files of 1.3Gb. To me this indicates multiple issues. As the device is deteriorating its time for me to consider my recovery plan.
I dont have a Win 8.1 disc but do have the key. Rather than use my earlier macrium image I'm considering going with a fresh install.
However your last point on W 8.1 repair disc might do. I will read the link for repair. Question, would a system image disc, in my case a W8.1 ISO 3.9 Gb. have a repair element?
Re the final solution, nuke & pave  please advise me if my procedure is sound as I haven't done this for years.
1. swap out the SSD and fit the original drive with W 8.1 OS that I replaced several months ago and kept intact  just in case!  Confirms my hardware is sound.
2. Put SSD in USB enclosure and copy data across.
3. Download & burn W 8.1 ISO to disc
4. Refit the SSD, boot to CD and install new OS
5.Apply current Acer drivers

Am unsure about fresh install on populated SSD. Does it overwrite or is there a procedure / auto to clear the SSD drive?

Thank you for the time you spent with me on this issue, for me it has been an opportunity to learn and reminded of the diagnostic labyrinth we inhabit. Got familiar again with Event viewer and CMD line which I havn't used in years of stable use.                             
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 17, 2018, 04:09:01 PM
I'm not sure what that system image disk is unless you are wrongly describing it, but you can download an 8.1 ISO from https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows8ISO

I don't know if this includes the options to create a bootable DVD or USB as the Win 10 ISO download does, but you can use Windows own DVD/USB Burner Tool which will give you the option of DVD or USB in which case you would select Save on the download.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=56485

You could also use your Macrium image to restore your SSD with or put your HDD in, bring that up to date and create an image of that and then stick your SSD back in and restore the SSD with that image.

The difference in size of the HDD to SSD could create a problem with that solution as while I've restored a new 1TB with an image from a 640GB HDD, I had to factory reset back to Win 7 from Win 10 because I ended up with about 350GB of unallocated space which I was unable to extend to C: because it wasn't immediately to the right of C: because of Win 10's recovery partition.

I think I'd go for the repair install to see if that will complete - you haven't said if the machine has stopped freezing.

Where did the product key come from ?

Where did you get the error reporting of 1.3GB of files from ?

Did you get an error message from the dism cmds and did you run a sfc /scannow which would report if there was corruption it had or couldn't repair ?



Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 17, 2018, 06:39:49 PM
Well as the freeze in under 3 minutes continues, none of the dism / sfc Cmds could complete. I found the reference to the 1.3 Gb in ccleaner and I recovered my product key some time ago with a third party tool. As my current configuration is a clone of an upgrade (8 to 8.1) from 2014 its an opportune time to do a fresh install. I'm used to working with the 250 Gb SSD, the bulk of my data is on external drives. I'll peruse the links to MS for that 8.1 ISO next week. Now I have found a Recovery file that I generated on a USB after I bought this laptop, however I stupidly copied that file to my laptop rather than cloning it. Am I right in thinking it will not work as a result?
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 18, 2018, 12:25:06 AM
It probably won't as it's something you would normally boot up with for it to work.

There's one other thing you could try before you go the whole hog and that is an offboot sfc /scannow.

When you have downloaded the ISO and have created the install disk, boot up with it and navigate to the Install screen to click on Repair your computer.

From there, navigate to the Recovery Environment to select Command Prompt.

At the cmd prompt enter bcdedit |find "osdevice" and use the that partition letter instead of the X I have exampled and enter -

sfc /scannow /offbootdir=X:\ /offwindir=X:\Windows

and that will check your system against the install disk and hopefully repair any corruption.

In the bcdedit cmd, for clarity that is a Pipe symbol before find and is the uppercase of \

You need to execute that cmd as in that mode it doesn't always see the volume as being in C:
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 18, 2018, 01:31:37 AM
On reflection, with that many files corrupted, can you boot up into Safe Mode with Networking and run an antimalware scan with the free version of MBAM.

https://www.malwarebytes.com/mwb-download/

The version that is downloaded is a 14 day trial of the Premium version but you can disable that by clicking on Settings/Account Details where you'll see where to disable it.

Where in CCleaner does it give that info ?
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 18, 2018, 05:25:57 AM
I've attach screen shots of where I found the 1.3 Gb report & another with some detail of its contents.  RE. Malwarebytes scan, this device also freezes in Safe Mode.
I have got the W 8.1 ISO and burned to disc at this stage.
 Just seeking clarity on the Cmds you supplied:
At the Cmds prompt I enter   bcdedit |find "osdevice"  Is that with the " marks?
So when I enter       bcdedit |find "osdevice"       a list is presented and the assoiated letter with "osdevice" is what I enter for X :
sfc /scannow /offbootdir=X:\ /offwindir=X:\Windows
I tend to copy/paste your Cmds to avoid syntax errors with spaces etc.

Earlier you sent me a link :
https://www.intowindows.com/how-to-repair-windows-8-1-installation/

Is this the interface I'm to expect ? I don't see reference to Recovery Environ in this guide.
Today I'm busy and wont have enough dedicated time to begin / complete the process, so forgive me if I go quiet till tomo.

nil desperandum
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 18, 2018, 08:41:50 AM
When I run CCleaner I only get the same as for your first pic to clear the temp files etc. - I don't see an option for that Advanced Report except in Tools with the other option of Summary.

I have mine set for Advanced instead of Summary but not sure how you would get to that page.

I have Memory Dumps and Windows Error Reporting unchecked, but I also have an updated version of 5.49.6856

I noticed in a previous post that you said the repair program froze in Safe Mode, but I was wondering if that was because of what it was doing and thought perhaps MBAM would have run in that mode.

I remember from your msinfo32 that you also had problems running AdwCleaner, but I assume that was in normal mode.

Enter the bcdedit cmd as I've typed it with the quotes.

You can still copy & paste the offboot sfc /scannow cmd but change the X to your partition letter before pressing enter.

The Recovery Environment is what you get when pressing and holding SHIFT throughout a Restart and then click on Troubleshoot to give you the options as in the following article and is similar to when you boot up with an install disk, except you don't get the Startup Settings option.

https://www.dummies.com/computers/operating-systems/windows-8/the-windows-8-1-recovery-environment/

Ignore any buttons for diagnose & repair adds.

The later link is a walk through for the repair install which is done in Windows, but as the machine is still freezing, I'm not sure if that will run.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 18, 2018, 03:01:11 PM
Going back to when you said you had used a 3rd party tool to find your product key, was that MagicJellyBean or Belarc Advisor ?

If it was either then that would only give you the OEM generic product key which would not activate a repair or clean install.

If this is the case, can you run that batch file in the article I'd linked and compare what it gives you with the one you have written down and if the latter one is different to what you have written down - then take the latter one as the one to use.

Given that your machine is still freezing then I think it would be inadvisable to attempt a repair install as you could end up with nothing.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 19, 2018, 05:21:41 AM
Regarding link:
https://winaero.com/blog/how-to-get-the-windows-product-key-without-using-third-party-software/

I followed instructions, placed GetProductKey.ps1 file on Desktop, after following steps and entering the location in powershell :
 Import-Module C:\Users\Desktop\GetProductKey.ps1; Get-WindowsKey
Got an unable to find msg, see atttch
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 19, 2018, 05:42:11 AM
Did you use double quotes when you named the batch file as the article suggests -  "GetProductKey.ps1"

Edit - Hang on while I give it a try in my Win 10.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 19, 2018, 05:54:31 AM
unable to use " " in renaming .psi1 file, however do you mean in the powershell like so in full address path:

Import-Module C:\Users\Desktop\Mr\"GetProductKey.ps1". Get-WindowsKey

tried that adjustment, nada see attch
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 19, 2018, 06:09:37 AM
I got the same error as you but I saved mine to the Docs folder and used Import-Module C:\Users\KAM4\Documents\GetProductKey.ps1; Get-WindowsKey so I don't know why it worked in the article but not ours.

I'll see if I can find another method, but unless you want to do a clean install and I don't think a repair install will complete, it may be academic.

I think you are looking at either one of your Macrium images or the Reset option where you will need to reinstall any programs you will have installed.

Personally I would opt for a Macrium image.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 19, 2018, 06:26:09 AM
I copied & paste this cmd (Get-WmiObject -query 'select * from SoftwareLicensingService').OA3xOriginalProductKey form this article but got an error on my Win 10. https://www.howtogeek.com/206329/how-to-find-your-lost-windows-or-office-product-keys/

This could in my case be because the laptop originally came with Win 7 and the upgrade to Win 10 is digitally activated, although Speccy gives what appears to be a generic Win 10 product key.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 19, 2018, 07:10:34 AM
at this point I'll swap back to my original drive with 8.1 OS and secure data from SSD in USB enclosure. Odd thing where as I used Macrium to gen a back up some time back, I'v never gone thru the process of retrieving image. I'm assuming my W81.1 ISO (file type System Image disc ) which I have on an external drive is it. hmm..
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 19, 2018, 07:27:40 AM
No - you need to make a Macrium boot disk or USB to boot up with.

Open Macrium and click on the disk top left.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 19, 2018, 08:28:16 AM
Did you run the offboot sfc /scannow ?
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 19, 2018, 08:59:58 AM
not yet, am swapping drives..
Question, because of the freezing, can I install macrium on another W7 laptop that I'm using, generate rescue medium choosing W8.1 PE burn to disc and then back to the refitted 8.1 ssd and boot from this disc ? Confident I have located the restore image going by date.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 19, 2018, 09:15:42 AM
Okay but that doesn't fix your corrupt volume.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 20, 2018, 08:17:14 AM
Well Boggin, finally narrowing issue down to the SSD drive. After removing it to copy the data, the same freeze occurred during the copying (Via USB) to my stable W 10 PC. So multiple reboots and got the job finished.
 Next I fitted the spinner back to the laptop, all well, then booted from the W8.1 ISO, thanks for the link,  and did a full reset. Now waiting  for the 150 updates!  As it happens my Key was accepted and there was a happy ending to this adventure.
Reading up on SSD freeze I saw this issue crops up a fair bit, users posting the following:

 "Then, although the cursor moves, everything has frozen. Clock stops, browser freezes, can only hard reset to start again"".

"Hi. Got a new SSD, WD Blue 250GB, and it constantly freezes my entire PC when transferring files to it through either download or just moving files to it from elsewhere on the PC. The freezes are seemingly random. When the freeze happens the transfer speed usually drops to 0 (sometimes it doesn't even register that and it just stops) and everything on the PC becomes unresponsive, including task manager. This forces a hard shutdown and restart using the power switch".
 A good article to add to your database:
https://www.partitionwizard.com/clone-disk/ssd-freeze-up.html

thanks again for your persistence in helping me, learning curve in vertical !!
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 20, 2018, 08:38:33 AM
Thanks - that's something I didn't know about and would explain why it was also freezing in Safe Mode.

So were any of those settings on your machine adrift to cause your freeze ?
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 20, 2018, 08:50:18 AM
Nope, i7 humming, virgin install and just getting used to platter micro latency !
Happy to present you with a copy of my first ever"Catastrophic " error !
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 20, 2018, 08:53:45 AM
not yet, am swapping drives..
Question, because of the freezing, can I install macrium on another W7 laptop that I'm using, generate rescue medium choosing W8.1 PE burn to disc and then back to the refitted 8.1 ssd and boot from this disc ? Confident I have located the restore image going by date.

I've just seen your edit on this post.

I only have Macrium on my two Win 10 laptops and each loads the drivers for that machine onto the WPE disk but I have booted one machine with the other WPE.

While it will have the details from your Win 7 machine, it should still boot to the Macrium program for you to stick your external HDD in.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 20, 2018, 08:55:12 AM
Nope, i7 humming, virgin install and just getting used to platter micro latency !
Happy to present you with a copy of my first ever"Catastrophic " error !

Is this what you got when copying during a freeze ?
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 20, 2018, 09:08:37 AM
I noticed in Windows Error Reporting in your msinfo32 there was one reported for IE and Explorer.exe.
and if necessary, uncheck the box for the IE repair.

that triggered it.
 oh how I wish I knew more
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 20, 2018, 09:11:40 AM
So when you fitted the SSD did you set it up as per that article or did the freezes just come out of the blue ?
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 20, 2018, 09:21:39 AM
Thats been wrecking my head, 9 months of flawless daily use, no precursor or event..San Disc extreme mode SSDl, no particular reputation.
So we were chasing symptoms, the art of diagnosis  :sarcastic: 
regards to jmp
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 20, 2018, 09:26:14 AM
That is a puzzler - did you come across any more articles on SSD freeze as that article was more about a wrong set up.

Had you installed anything prior to the freezes starting ?
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 20, 2018, 09:50:13 AM
The list :https://www.google.ie/search?q=ssd+freezing+windows+7

Though I like this piece:
https://odd.blog/2013/11/26/yes-finally-fixed-ssd-freezing-computer/

Updated malwarebytes 2 days prior, got a trial premium & that involves a new all reaching filter in real time.
Disabled it on start up...
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 20, 2018, 10:02:55 AM
That's a fair bit of reading in the hyperlink, but it seems the jury could still be out as to the cause when the freeze isn't immediate on installation.

Anyway, I'm of now for a little while.
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 20, 2018, 10:12:45 AM
ok, a fix : https://blogs.visigo.com/chriscoulson/ssd-freezing-fix/
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 20, 2018, 01:42:53 PM
That one seems to be a bit mix 'n match as well with it working for some but not others.

Which method have you successfully used or haven't you gotten around to it yet ?
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: mrwoof on November 21, 2018, 07:34:22 AM
I view the SSD as suspect and plan to replace it. continuing to read up..
Any tips for optimizing w8.1. I see Win Store +++ that I want to remove, shave down services / features / unticked Indexing  on C /start up etc
Disc activity high on start up, have installed "Everything" search & disabled Win search in services. Your thoughts on disabling "Superfetch"?
Title: Re: W8.1 Freezing
Post by: Boggin on November 21, 2018, 07:52:30 AM
When you install programs they tend to add their entry to the Startup menu and aren't really necessary and they unnecessarily take up memory.

SuperFetch isn't necessary for a SSD and can impact on it because of the multiple writes - according to https://helpdeskgeek.com/help-desk/delete-disable-windows-prefetch/ so it would be advisable to disable it.