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Main Forum => Everything Else => Topic started by: chris635 on December 18, 2012, 10:25:18 AM

Title: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 18, 2012, 10:25:18 AM
Shane

   I have a thermaltake smart 850w (80 plus ceritfied) modular power supply. It comes with enough connections for 9 sata and 6 or 8 molex connections. I will be running 6 120mm fans. Can I daisy chain the fans, say two per connection or should I give them their own moles connection?


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 18, 2012, 10:53:04 AM
The fans don't take much power and you should be able to have them all hooked onto one with each other :-)

This has a graph showing power consumption down the page a bit.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/coolers/display/120mm-fan-roundup-1_20.html

I also have all my fans set with the auto fan control to keep things quiet. If things start to get hot the fan speeds auto increase.

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 18, 2012, 11:01:43 AM
How do i set it up with the auto fan control? just daisy chain them off of motherboard?

Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 18, 2012, 11:15:05 AM
Yes the motherboard should have connectors for them. But I dont know if it will have 6. That is a lot of fans lol. I only have 3 in my system.

Once they are plugged into the motherboard you can enable the fan control under the hardware monitor in the bios.

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 18, 2012, 11:18:10 AM
My motherboard hasn't arrived yet so I will check. And yes it is a lot of cooling, my wife keeps it warm in the living room, so I want it to be cool LOL!

Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 18, 2012, 11:23:41 AM
Might be over kill lol.

On my system I have 1 120mm (intake) in front blowing over my raid 1 (mirrored) drives. 1 120mm in the back (exhaust) and 1 120 mm at the top (exhaust) power supply is on the bottom of this case, which is a good spot for it, heat rises.

This is the current case I use for all the machines I buld for my customers and is the current case I use as well.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147153

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 18, 2012, 11:27:28 AM
Looks nice. I already bought a cooler master elite 430, not the best but I got it on sale. Has 120mm fans, top(X2), front(1), Side (1) Bottom (1) and back (1).


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 18, 2012, 11:30:00 AM
I am about to head out the door, but I remember you asking me about SSD drives. I havent got one yet because of price. But looks like I might be getting one in the next year if this keeps up :-)

http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/12/12/18/1554227/ssd-prices-continue-3-year-plunge

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 18, 2012, 11:34:48 AM
Yeah I bought a ssd ocz vertex 4 128 gb for os. I also bought 3 1tb and 1 5gb hard drives for storage. Overkill LOL!


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 18, 2012, 11:41:18 AM
I hope you take mirroring as an option. I dont run a system without my stuff mirrored. Even though I do backups. When a drive dies everything on that drive goes with it. With mirrored I can keep on going with no down time while I get the drive replaced.

And if you have TB's of data doing a nightly backup isnt going to be the best thing as it would take so long and you would need backup drives big enough. What ever is most important to you make sure to keep backed up and on a mirror raid drive setup if you can.

These are my drives. Setup in a raid 1.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136798

    RAID-specific, time-limited error recovery (TLER)
    1.2 million hours at 100% duty cycle
    NoTouch ramp load technology
    24x7 reliability

5 year Warranty

And for not being SSD it is one of the fastest drives I have found in the 7200 RPM range.

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 18, 2012, 11:44:16 AM
Could i set up the raid for just two of the drives ( mainly my music collection, its extensive and photos)?

Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 18, 2012, 11:46:03 AM
Yeah.

Also looks like OCZ has the worse return rates for their SSD drives.

http://www.behardware.com/articles/881-7/components-returns-rates-7.html

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 18, 2012, 11:52:40 AM
Yeah from what I can tell it was the controller (sandbridge) chip in it and ocz changed it to the indilinx infused chip for the vertex 4. They bought inidlinx to control quality. I believe this was correct. The vertex 4 is suppose to be one of the top dogs for speed and reliabilty, but I will let you know LOL!


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 18, 2012, 11:58:51 AM
Opps, it was the sandforce controller.


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 18, 2012, 02:48:43 PM
Let me know how it goes. I also need to see how well they do in a raid setup :wink:

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 18, 2012, 06:15:16 PM
will do!  :tongue:

Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 19, 2012, 07:20:36 AM
Should I use the cd with the motherboard for drivers or get the latest from the manufacturer?


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 19, 2012, 11:21:01 AM
manufacturer is normally best :wink:

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 19, 2012, 11:27:20 AM
Can i use a wireless mouse or keyboard in the bios or do i need a wired keyboard in order to make changes?


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 19, 2012, 11:31:45 AM
Motherboards have supported USB mice and keyboard for a while now, you should be fine :wink:

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 19, 2012, 11:54:02 AM
As you know I have several hard drives I will be installing. Should I plug them all in at once or wait until after I install the os on the ssd drive? Then plug the rest in after first boot (Obviously I will have to power down my system first).


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 19, 2012, 11:57:50 AM
Install OS first, then the rest of the drives. :-)

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 19, 2012, 12:01:35 PM
Thanks Shane


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 19, 2012, 09:31:21 PM
The motherboard I bought has a Cpu Fan header then 2 system 4 pin fan headers and 2 system 3 pin fan headers. All the fans I have are 3 pin with a 4 pin molex with a small 1 pin connection from it adapter. My questions is this. Can I plug the 3 pin fans (without molex adapter) to each 4 pin system fan header, and if I could what is the operational difference?


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 19, 2012, 09:58:58 PM
Also I have a amd fx 6100 6 core processor. What is the best way to overclock it from 3.3 up to 4. This is unlocked. This is my motherboard, MSI 990XA gd55. I have a thermaltake (modular 80 plus bronze)850 watt psu with 70 amps on the 12 volt rail (that should be more than enough for overclocking with a decent video card and all the hard drives I have).


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 20, 2012, 02:49:44 PM
The pins will work.

As for the overclock it would take a LOT of fine tuning and testing to try and get it to 4 ghz. On my 3.3 ghz amd I could get it to 3.8 and have it stable.

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 21, 2012, 08:05:31 AM
Shane

   I was thinking about taking your advice and using a raid 1 configuration for my hard drives. However it looks like it is not possible in order to keep the ssd fast. From what I understand, to keep a ssd fast it must support TRIM. The only way to use TRIM properly is to set the bios up for AHCI. TRIM it seems does not support raid configurations at the moment. If I'm wrong please let me know. I would like to have TRIM for my ssd (AHCI) and raid1 my hardrives (RAID).



Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 21, 2012, 08:14:31 AM
Upon further reading. Is AHCI a subset of RAID? Therefore as long as the ssd is not part of the RAID array would TRIM support work?


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 21, 2012, 10:50:11 AM
Sounds like the best thing to do is have the OS on the SSD and raid your other drives. Keep anything that is important on those while keeping the OS (Which can be reinstalled if the drive dies) on the faster drive.

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 21, 2012, 11:03:16 AM
Still not sure if TRIM for ssd will work. It's vague about weather or not it will in RAID configuration. Can I set AHCI (TRIM will only work for AHCI) for the ssd and RAID for the others?


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 21, 2012, 11:05:25 AM
Quote
Can I set AHCI (TRIM will only work for AHCI) for the ssd and RAID for the others?

Thats how I would do it :-)

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 22, 2012, 10:26:27 PM
Hi Shane

   While in the bios for my new rig, I noticed cpu temp was at 47 c and system board was at 31 c. Is this normal to read higher in the bios? The bios is a UEFI in a msi motherboard. I have not loaded windows yet. My wife is supposed to have gotten me a nice video card for Christmas, which is why I haven't loaded windows (if not I will be buying one I guess lol) :wink:


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 23, 2012, 08:41:59 AM
Shane

  Do you disable core parking or do you just leave it? Once I get this thing ready to go I was thinking about it (how do you even do it).


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 23, 2012, 12:20:09 PM
Quote
  While in the bios for my new rig, I noticed cpu temp was at 47 c and system board was at 31 c. Is this normal to read higher in the bios? The bios is a UEFI in a msi motherboard. I have not loaded windows yet. My wife is supposed to have gotten me a nice video card for Christmas, which is why I haven't loaded windows (if not I will be buying one I guess lol) :wink:

When in the bios the CPU is maxed out. So those temps are good :-) Make sure AMD cool & quit is on and your system will under clock when not in use lowering the heat and fan speeds. Saving the power and the life of the system.

Also why wait for the new video card? Wont hurt at all to pop a new one in after :wink:

Quote
Do you disable core parking or do you just leave it? Once I get this thing ready to go I was thinking about it (how do you even do it).

Not sure what that is off the top of my head. I dont remember seeing it in my bios. So for now leave it at its default.

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 23, 2012, 12:35:49 PM
I'm getting a new one for Christmas. I just used an old one to check the build so far. I haven't even loaded windows yet. As far as core parking, that is a feature in windows. You should be able to see it under resource management. From what I understand windows will park cores, not giving you the full potential of the cpu. Not sure if this is snake oil?


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 23, 2012, 12:40:15 PM
Havent heard of it myself. Personally I want Windows to use all my cores. The point of multi core is to multi task. Defeats the purpose otherwise :-)

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 23, 2012, 12:54:04 PM
Yeah iv seen it on my friends machine. Look in resource management and depending on what your doing windows will park some cores.



Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 26, 2012, 03:34:46 PM
Shane

   What do you use to check core temps?


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 26, 2012, 03:38:23 PM
When I need to check it I use the software from the motherboard mfg. :wink:

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 26, 2012, 03:41:54 PM
How do i do that? just log into the bios?

Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 26, 2012, 03:43:49 PM
No, go to the motherboard mfg site and find the downloads for your MB. It should be there where you can download it :wink:

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 27, 2012, 06:34:02 PM
Hi Shane

   Hope you had a merry Christmas. We'll I'm up and running. Brand new build with new OS install. I'm over clocking and I am sending two pic's. Why are they different as far as CPU temps? The program is MSI's control panel. I have the option to run it either in full mode (Shot1) or gadget mode (shot2). It looks like maybe cpu temp at the board and actual cpu temp maybe? Also the overclock as you can see from shot2 is done with just the multiplier. It's stock voltage. I haven't tried to see how far I can go before changeing the voltage. If I have to change voltage. How small should the adjustments be. It's at 1.26 volts (The processor is amd fx 6100 six core). What is the voltage limit? So far it's fast (ssd he he  :tongue:). My graphics card is xfx radeon 7770 ultra clocked. Ram is Kingston hyper x blue 1600 mhz.

Windows experience index is as follows

Processor 7.4
Memory 7.8
Graphics 7.6
Gaming Graphics 7.6
Primary Hard Disk 7.9

I want to get the processor up to at least 7.6 (thats why I have the questions about cpu temps and overclocking).

At the current overclocking settings I ran Prime 95 for an hour with no failures with temps between 49 and 52 C.

Any advice is greatly appreciated as I want this to be really fast without sacrificing durability.


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 28, 2012, 12:05:48 PM
No matter what those are great temps. When the CPU is under a full load for a while is where it matters. As long as the temps hit 150 f or less at full load you will be fine.

As for voltage this is where it gets tricky and dangerous. You increase the voltage by the smallest amount possible until you find a stable point. If the cpu runs stable your fine.

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 28, 2012, 12:19:55 PM
I'm running prime 95 now. How long should I run it to check for stability? Bye the way I cranked up the multiplier to get 3.9 ghz. I tried 4.0 ghz but there were some failures on prime 95 so I set it to 3.9 ghz. I think I will leave set there (as long as prime 95 doesn't show failures)as I really don't think I want to screw with the voltage. Just looking for advice now as to how long to test for stability.


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 28, 2012, 12:24:30 PM
That all depends. An  hour to be safe. As for me when I had my system overclocked I had it right at the borderline of stable. So I could game for hours with no problems but had random lockups, driver crashes and odd things. This would happen sometimes right at bootup or after hours of play. So by simply lowering it one step I found the sweet spot and I was good.

So an hour as a burn in test is good. Anything seems unstable just dropping it down 1 level may be all it needs to hit that max spot for stable.

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 28, 2012, 12:28:17 PM
Okay. The pic's I sent you were idle temps. Right now under full load it's 49c/120f. Are these temps still good? Prime 95 has been running for about an hour now.


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 28, 2012, 12:29:51 PM
Yes those are good temps for full load. I have seen some systems with power cooling run at those temps at idle lol

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 28, 2012, 12:45:12 PM
LOL! :omg: Okay thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it. This ssd drive is awesome. System boots in no time flat.



Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 28, 2012, 01:07:32 PM
Forgot to ask. How do I setup amd cool and quite? It's enabled in the bios.



Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 28, 2012, 01:09:21 PM
Thats all you have to do. You should be able to see a current cpu clock in that program you got.

You will see the clock lower when idle and go max when under a load.

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 28, 2012, 01:40:27 PM
Okay. Prime95 failed with large fft so I did bump up voltage to 1.3volts.


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 28, 2012, 01:45:53 PM
On my AMD I got it to 3.8 ghz with only multiplyer and stable.

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 28, 2012, 02:12:47 PM
Yeah Ill just set it back.


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 29, 2012, 01:56:53 PM
Shane

     Quick questions about temperatures

What do these mean?

  1. TMPIN0
  2. TMPIN2

Using hardware monitor and the temperatures respectively are 41 c (105 f) and 27 c (80 f).

Then I see AMD  FX 6100 Temperatures 20 c (68f)

What are these telling me?

What is the difference between cpu temp (is the temp's I should be concerned ?) and core temp's (or these)?

Here is picture as well

These temps are while I am on the net (sending you a message), listening to music and several other apps open.


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 29, 2012, 03:58:54 PM
Those are the temps on the motherboard. All temps look great. Unless you see a temp going really high you have nothing to worry about :-)

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 29, 2012, 04:10:57 PM
Okay. In my bios I have section called cpu fan target. How do  I use this?

Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 29, 2012, 04:16:22 PM
Thats the target fan speed you want to maintain. Leave it default, your tempts are good.

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 29, 2012, 04:22:33 PM
It wasn't set up. my fan was running wide open. Yesterday I set it to 45 c fan 35%. Is this correct.


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on December 30, 2012, 03:02:14 PM
Play with it and find a good zone. Silent while keeping cool :-)

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on December 30, 2012, 03:21:54 PM
Thanks Shane


Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on January 03, 2013, 07:53:36 PM
Shane
   Where can I find voltage limits for amd fx 6100. I cant get stable passed 3.8 with some hard ware failure on prime 95. Do you even overclock with voltage or is this something I really should just leave alone?



Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on January 04, 2013, 02:44:10 PM
I say leave it be. 3.8 with multiple cores is good. When the voltage is higher you get more heat and less life time.

Shane
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: chris635 on January 05, 2013, 02:25:10 PM
Okay,

   Couldn't help myself. I overclocked to 4.0 ghz with 1.36 volts, then enabled cool n quite. Works well. Bench marked for four hours. Heat under full load was 54 c. I will not go higher as I am not comfortable with going over 55 c. With cool n quite enabled temps go down to about 34 c. I think I have a pretty good sweet spot for this thing now. I have read in forums that some folks are getting as much as 4.5 ghz, but voltage is soaring. They must be brave or have tremendous cooling lol!

 As far as a graphics card is concerned, I have a xfx  R7700. Do you overclock your gpu? If so, what software are you using to do it and will it load with windows start up?



Chris
Title: Re: cpu build questions
Post by: Shane on January 05, 2013, 04:07:20 PM
Good job on the overclock.

I stopped overclocking my stuff a while ago. The only time I overclock is when my system cant handle something. But I try to build a new system every year or two so I try to stay good on hardware. I dont buy the most powerful as they are alwasy through the roof in price, I go the middle ground.

My Windows performance is 7.8 on everything but my drives (I dont have SSD) and that is with every thing stock.

Shane