Author Topic: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)  (Read 3380 times)

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Offline Shane

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OK so here is what I found in my testing, it wasnt any single repair breaking windows 10 1809, the antivirus or anything else. It was windows itself!

I found in my testing that 1809 has a bug where when you use the bcdedit command to set safemode with networking and then use the bcdedit to remove the command it doesn't fully work. Those are the commands my program uses to get windows into safe mode.

So what happens is 2 registry keys are created by windows when using bcdedit but when you remove the command the 2 registry keys are not removed! So windows thinks its still in safe mode when it isnt, and so no service that isnt allowed to run in safe mode will start! This means windows updates not opening, antiivirus not working all of it and a ton more. This didn't happen in older builds or older versions of Windows.

So in the new version of my program (v4.4.0 released today as of this post) I have WR set to remove those two registry keys! After that everything works great and the repairs arent actually breaking anything.

So if you get a user who has this trouble, there is a way to fix it! two ways actually.

1st way: Have them load up the new version of WR and have WR restart in safe mode, once in safe mode open WR and then simply close it. WR will remove the registry keys when it closes and then restart windows. This is by far the easiest way for users.

2nd way: In the program folder under the files folder and then the regfiles folder I made a remove_stuck_safemode.reg files that will delete the registry keys if they are there. All a user needs to do is double click on it and then restart windows. While this may seem easier, it also means telling some users how to actually find the file, which you know isn't always easy.

Keeping up with the constant changes and new bugs in every new build of Windows 10 is a challenge, thanks for hanging in there with me!

-Shane
PLEASE EDIT YOUR TOPIC AND PUT (SOLVED) IF YOU ARE ALL FIXED.

(My weekends belong to my wife and kids, I will try my best to answer all posts daily during the work week)

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Offline u_i

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2018, 05:30:52 PM »
Running WR appears to damage irreversibly Windows Update for Win 10, as of Dec 2, 2018.  I spent several days on it before identifying that WR (I believe 4.4.0) is the culprit.  After running the basic subset of the repairs, Windows Update quits downloading files.  Registry and Permissions restoration does not help.  System Restore points seem to disappear after registry restoration.  At this point I only get back to operation using partition backup from a month ago or so.  At this stage I am unstalling WR to ensure that I do not activate it accidentally.

Offline Boggin

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2018, 01:05:11 AM »
Running WR appears to damage irreversibly Windows Update for Win 10, as of Dec 2, 2018.  I spent several days on it before identifying that WR (I believe 4.4.0) is the culprit.  After running the basic subset of the repairs, Windows Update quits downloading files.  Registry and Permissions restoration does not help.  System Restore points seem to disappear after registry restoration.  At this point I only get back to operation using partition backup from a month ago or so.  At this stage I am unstalling WR to ensure that I do not activate it accidentally.

You should have opened your own thread about this as it is different to the original problem where machines were staying partly in Safe Mode with Networking.

However, although you are the only person to have reported this new problem, I will pass it onto Shane.

Can you go Start - type winver and press enter when it comes up and let us know the exact version of Win 10 you are using.

While I've test run 4.4.0, I haven't experienced it remaining in Safe Mode but can't verify the problem with the updates as I'd restored with the Macrium system image I'd created before running the program.
Tom.

Offline u_i

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2018, 03:02:20 AM »
Apologies for the rushed posting, but since I was crippled by this and recovering took days of work - in particular trying to reset the Automatic Update to make it work and that led to nowhere - I thought I should warn others promptly.  In any case, the system ius Windows 10 Pro 64-bit x64.  Winver says version 1709 OS Build 16299.665.  Before unistalling I had there  Tweaking.com Repair Pro.  After running the standard version of repairs, I think opening custom, but then without changing defaults, the Automatic Updates would be crippled, always coming back with an error from download of anything, never going above 0%.  The claimed error numbers might vary, but never getting beyond 0%, please restart to fix etc.  I think I applied all remedies from the Web for fixing the Update Assistant, but nothing worked.  Manual updates would work with hiccups - not all update numbers from Update Assistant are actually posted on MS Update Central.

Offline Boggin

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2018, 04:13:58 AM »
I've emailed Shane about your error report.

The current version that I have is 1803 17134.441 although some are at 1809 but that was pulled when it was found to be causing serious problems, so you should be up to at least 1803.

Updating from 1709 to 1803 took about 4hrs on my two Win 10 machines.

JFI some things you can try to manually fix updates is to open a Command Prompt (Admin) or Powershell (Admin) and enter these cmds, although you may have already tried these -

dism /online /cleanup-image /startcomponentcleanup

dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth

sfc /scannow

The sfc /scannow would tell you if any corruption remains.

The following cmds which you can copy & paste to the cmd prompt to auto run will reset the update components, but you may have to press enter for the last one to execute.

net stop wuauserv

net stop cryptSvc

net stop bits

net stop msiserver

ren C:\Windows\SoftwareDistribution SoftwareDistribution.old

ren C:\Windows\System32\catroot2 catroot2.old

net start wuauserv

net start cryptSvc

net start bits

net start msiserver

Enter exit to close the cmd window.



Tom.

Offline u_i

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2018, 02:33:27 PM »
Thanks.  To get the update done, I already gone many times through such and every time the update would start resorting to the previous version before reaching the end.  I eventually succeeded, though, to get to 1803 by doing the update under a clean boot.

Offline Boggin

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2018, 02:38:16 PM »
So it wasn't the program then - but thanks for the update and that you were able to get it resolved.
Tom.

Offline u_i

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2018, 07:53:01 PM »
No, please do not misunderstand me.  These were 2 separate problems.  Tweaking.com Repair disabled automatic updates and specifically downloads for automatic updates.  I found no way to restore automatic updates other than by restoring system from backup. I went through 2 rounds of this confirming that Tweaking.com was the culprit, with the automatic updates downloading before the Repair and failing to download thereafter.  However, even with automatic updates crippled, I could do manual updates, many but not all.  The updates failing to install included Security for Flash and Features Update.   After restoring the system from backup and doing clean boot I was able to do automatic updates for everything.

Offline Boggin

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2018, 01:23:49 AM »
Well as you were able to update normally in a clean boot, that would point to something that you have installed on your computer.

I have the Pro version of the program and it doesn't feature in any part of the Startup items in Task Manager or non MS services in msconfig.

The only thing that does start on a delayed start up is the taskbar icon but the only way you can stop that is from the program's settings.
Tom.

Offline u_i

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2018, 03:57:57 AM »
I may give up trying to explain it.  Clean boot was a remedy for a different problem than Tweaking.com caused.  My automatic update succeeded only after the changes caused by Tweaking.com were reverted by bringing the computer to a state prior to the Tweaking.com activity, through a restoration from a month-old Acronis backup.  I never succeeded to repair damage done by Tweaking.com through lesser means.  Tweaking.com damaged the first part of automatic updates - i.e. the update files would quit downloading.  The emergence of download errors was correlated to the action of Tweaking.com and not to any other program running on the computer.  I do not know in what other words I need to phrase it.

Offline Boggin

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2018, 04:49:30 AM »
Well you have said in a clean boot state that the updates executed as they should do.

I don't know what the program would have done to bring about a problem that would change your start up items that a clean boot would resolve.

That was my point.

I appreciate that WR has caused problems in Win 10 because of changes MS has made to Permissions which Shane has worked hard to try and mitigate but which seem to be still apparent, but when a clean boot on its own can resolve a problem then that would specifically point to a problem within that machine.

I have emailed Shane about your error report on this but as yet, I don't know how it will be addressed, but I go back to my original point in that when a clean boot resolves a problem then that specifically points to the machine in question.

It may be that the update problem following running the program was coincidental.
Tom.

Offline u_i

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2018, 08:20:00 AM »
Sure, there may be interactions between different layers causing problems.  My system in question is now running very smoothly.  If it were of any help, I could run a backup in the near future, uninstall some update, run Tweaking.com Repair and look whether the problem returns.  Of course there is no guarantee that some bad interaction in the background persists in my system, so on the other hand on might for the time just gather statistics from users.

Offline Boggin

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2018, 08:23:15 AM »
You are the only one that has reported this, but you could try what you have suggested to see if WR is the cause.
Tom.

Offline DonZ1960

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2018, 05:10:26 PM »
Last week, on my HP PC Win 10 64 Bit Home Edition pending some updates for Build 1803 from MS which were originally bad and were supposed to be fixed by the end of November 2018, I ran Tweaking.com - Windows Repair 4.4.0 Pro Version in Safe Mode with Networking using my NIC Card which had some intermittent dropouts but I started to run the Pre-Repairs Steps and I got the Blue Screen.

After I restarted my PC, it seemed to be stuck in Safe Mode without Networking and I could not do anything meaningful. Since I had NIC Card intermittent dropouts for a while and recent Wi-Fi failures on this PC, I got rid of my old HP PC and I got a new HP PC. 

My new HP PC Win 10 64 Bit Home Edition has all good updates for Build 1803.

I need to know if it is safe for me to run Tweaking.com - Windows Repair Pro Version in Safe Mode with Networking in the future and which version #?

Offline Boggin

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2018, 12:57:18 AM »
It would have been cheaper to have had the Ethernet and wireless chips replaced, but at least you are now where you want to be.

Shane will continue to update the repair program as Win 10 progresses and to always use the latest version on Win 10, but I would always advise to create a system image before running the program as I do before test running it.

Just as Windows Updates can affect some machine while not others, the repair program can have adverse effects on some machines while not others.

On the Forum we only see those who have had problems but not the many who don't.
Tom.

Offline DonZ1960

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2018, 03:35:20 PM »
It was time for me to get a new PC anyway as my old HP PC was about 4 years old and running slower than I preferred. By the way, my new HP PC runs great and is much faster.

Per other postings and myself in the Tweaking.com Forum, its seems Tweaking.com - Windows Repair needs more exhaustive Quality Assurance testing as this last bug and other bugs were a real doozy.

Offline Boggin

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2018, 03:48:10 PM »
Shane does test the program before releasing any newer version, but while the bugs have affected some, they don't affect all and that safe mode problem didn't affect two Win 10 laptops I tested it on.

BTW - My two Toshiba Win 10 laptops were bought in 2011 and were upgraded from Win 7 and work fine for me.

I don't have any OEM bloat on them, only one program enabled in my Start-up menu - non-MS services trimmed in msconfig and I use CCleaner after each session to clean out the temp file cache etc. and defrag as required with occasional antimalware scans.

A maintained machine should continue to work just fine.

Tom.

Offline DonZ1960

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2018, 04:14:30 PM »
For faster, I meant the PC Processer and Internet Speed.

My old HP PC Processer was 2.4 GHz and my new HP PC Processer is 3.6 GHz.

My old HP PC Internet Speed was 50 mbps of a Wi-Fi limit of 72 mbps and its problematic NIC topped out at 100 mbps. My new HP PC's NIC tops at 1000 mbps and its Internet Speed is 180 mbps which is from Comcast/Xfinity.

I also keep a lean PC using CCleaner Pro and Windows Automatic Maintenance plus automatically scheduled anti-virus/anti-malware programs.



Offline Boggin

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2018, 09:27:32 AM »
Double clicking on Remove_stuck_remove was supposed to remove those keys but it has been reported that in one instance that it never.

I've reported this to Shane who I hopefully has seen my email and is working on it.

The difficulty would be though if the problem cannot be replicated, it could be difficult to resolve, so I'm awaiting the outcome.
Tom.

Offline Boggin

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2018, 03:13:46 PM »
Shane has said that he tested it 20 times in his Win 10 VM without any problems and it hasn't stuck in Safe Mode for me either when I test ran it, so your suggestion of a team of Beta testers may not also pick up any bugs.

Microsoft had Beta testers using 1809 before they released it and look at the problem that feature update caused with deleting files that MS had to pull the update.

I can assure you that Shane will be working on this but I can't say when he will find a solution, because first he needs to find the cause as it doesn't affect everyone.

I'll email jpm to see how this is progressing.
Tom.

Offline chakrimakam

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2018, 04:58:22 AM »
I don't know what you are saying about with this " WR " You need to type out the whole word not " WR ". I am not too happy about my program of Windows Defender is not working anymore after use your program, Tweaking Windows Repair 4.4.0. Now I am asking you how could I get this program of Windows Defender work again in my computer. I don't want to reinstall or system restore this. After you tell me how to fix this and I will NEVER ever use your program again till you make sure everything is working properly.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 05:30:22 AM by Boggin »

Offline Boggin

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2018, 05:28:05 AM »
I don't know what you are saying about with this " WR " You need to type out the whole word not " WR ". I am not too happy about my program of Windows Defender is not working anymore after use your program, Tweaking Windows Repair 4.4.0. Now I am asking you how could I get this program of Windows Defender work again in my computer. I don't want to reinstall or system restore this. After you tell me how to fix this and I will NEVER ever use your program again till you make sure everything is working properly.
www.ewhat.net

Shane has been made aware of this and is working on it - it hasn't affected everyone which makes it difficult to nail down, but for the time being you will need to use your restore points.

I've test run the repair program on 1809 and it rebooted fine fully back to normal mode.

What was the reason you ran Windows Repair ?

BTW - I've removed your spam link from your post - this on its own would have warranted you a ban, so not sure if you are just spamming or whether you have a genuine complaint, but for now I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 05:35:04 AM by Boggin »
Tom.

Offline howcar

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2018, 05:19:54 AM »
While you have given 2 ways to prevent this problem, they both require the latest version of Tweaking to be downloaded and installed.

I can't do that as I cannot access Windows now! :sad:

Please advise how I can get into windows to do the download.

Offline Boggin

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2018, 08:29:59 AM »
While you have given 2 ways to prevent this problem, they both require the latest version of Tweaking to be downloaded and installed.

I can't do that as I cannot access Windows now! :sad:

Please advise how I can get into windows to do the download.

Can you give more info on how you got to where you are in not being able to boot to Windows ?

Do you have access to another machine to create Win 10 install media ?

If you have, you can create that after reading the instructions at https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10

You'll probably need to change the boot order by tapping F12 as you switch on but if using an USB then its' best to insert that before you do that and use the cursor keys to select the media you are using then press enter after inserting a DVD if applicable.

If using a DVD then you will be prompted to press any key to boot from CD/DVD and then you will be presented with an inverse window with Windows Setup [EMS Enabled] highlighted - just press enter.

Change/confirm the Time and currency by using the dropdown then click on Troubleshoot - this will give you a number of options.

One is to use System Restore which will use your restore points, another is Startup Repair which is advocated to try up to three times and the other option is to use the Command Prompt.

At the prompt enter bcdedit |find "osdevice"

For clarity that is a Pipe symbol before find and is the uppercase of \

Using the partition letter that gives you can either perform a chkdsk /r or an offboot sfc /scannow.

e.g.

chkdsk e: /r where e is your partition letter.

sfc /scannow /offbootdir=E:\ /offwindir=E:\Windows

Note the space before each /

You need to perform the bcdedit cmd as it doesn't always see the volume as being in C: - it sees it in e on one of my machines.

Enter exit to close the cmd window and reboot to see if that will get you back to a normal boot up but we really need to know why you came to not being able to boot into Windows.

Do you have an external HDD plugged in or anything that wouldn't be normally plugged in as that can cause boot problems.

As for the Tweaking repair program, that may not be doing what Shane had intended, so I'd leave that for now.

Shane hasn't been very well for the last few weeks so he has been unable to do any more work on the program to confirm or correct any problem with it.


« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 08:58:43 AM by Boggin »
Tom.

Offline howcar

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Re: Windows 10 build 1809 and WR (Make sure to use WR 4.4.0 or newer)
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2018, 02:28:07 PM »
My PC was working normally, but slower than it used to be.

I opened Tweaking.com and ran it to see if it would speed it up a little.

When it finished I restarted it and after passing the screen to press Del for the Bios, there is a windows logo and rotating dots that don't stop.

I  Googled the symptoms and found it looked like it had got stuck in Safe Mode.

I followed a video and instructions, using a Windows disk to access the Command Prompt and entered the suggestions. That didn't work.

I have now tried your suggestions and they also don't work.

So the reason for my original post to this forum for help is that running Tweaking caused the lockout.

I understand you are saying it's caused by Windows but that doesn't help me.

So I ask again, how can I fix this when I can't access Windows? (please don't tell me to reinstall or refresh Windows).

I MUST access windows to copy some Trading files from   >users>XXX>appdata>roaming>metaquotes>terminal.

Only then can I reinstall Windows.