Messages

76

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 15, 2015, 02:59:51 pm »

Ah I see, can't believe you haven't attached a file to any of your 1100+ posts before though! 

If the CBS.log (I presume?) doesn't contain the string typed inside the findstr [] then it won't pass anything to the file created - I've had this before. Either that or the syntax of the dos command isn't quite correct so it's not running as expected and then not returning anything even though it's there - what's the exact syntax of the command you're using?

77

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 15, 2015, 12:27:57 pm »

Not sure what you mean by "attach SFC details to a post"!? 

Ha, all I do is either copy and paste from Notepad/command prompt/whatever into the body of a post, or if you mean add a file attachment then I just click the "Browse" button next to the "Attach:" thing underneath the reply box (see attachment!  ) and that opens up a browsing/exploring window for you to find the required file(s) - is that what you're referring to??

78

General Computer Support / Re: i got error in pre scan (solved)

« on: May 15, 2015, 10:07:48 am »

Hi, check out my reply in another thread http://www.tweaking.com/forums/index.php/topic,3107.0.html - I had a similar issue after doing a Repair install and then updating Windows, the SFC scan went from clear to finding corrupt files, some of which couldn't be repaired. I can only assume it was caused by one (or more) of the updates being installed/configured incorrectly...

I used the SFCFix.exe file from the link in the above thread and it cleared my corrupt SFC scan so give it a go if you get a minute (or maybe an hour or more - it took a good while to run on my Win7 64 bit Home Premium but did the job well after that!) 

79

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 15, 2015, 09:57:31 am »

No I meant it hadn't found any more bad sectors! There is a small area (several kB, forget the exact number) attributed to bad sectors, but none extra added to it since I last mentioned it had found some. 

Okay, I'll wait for Shane's advice on the pending and reboot xml files, and many thanks for all your help (and disks!) mate, appreciated 

80

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 15, 2015, 09:11:40 am »

Yeah, sorry Boggin - forgot to update my own thread with a fix I've posted in a different one!  ha.

Chkdsk is still showing clear, for now, although it does sometimes make corrections to the bitmap volume, but no more bad sectors lately. The SFC is now clear again thanks to the SFCFix, and the updates all (finally!) managed to install ok after several attempts, and those last 3 didn't require a reboot (maybe as they were only IE & Defender updates, rather than Windows or Security updates). A check after those showed no more Important updates to install, just the 4 optional ones I haven't added, and a green MS tick message!! Yay, Finally!! 

My only question now relates to all the renamed pending.xml files - do I need to keep them? And the reboot.xml in the winsxs folder as well? And I'm a bit wary that every time the monthly updates come around that I'll be in the same boat having to rename the pending.xml and do a double (or more!) reboot and recheck every time - any idea what's causing it to do this or how I can stop it?

Other than that, and still having the drivers to copy back on again (which doesn't seem to be causing any problems!), I'm tempted to mark this thread as [Solved] now - do I just amend the title in the reply to do this? Cheers

81

General Computer Support / Re: sfc /scannow not repairing corruptions

« on: May 15, 2015, 05:37:04 am »

Hi, I'm no expert (as Boggin and Shane can testify!  ), so I've no idea what those esteemed learned gents will give you, but I've had lots of problems with SFC myself (and Windows *@$# Updates as well to be more precise!) and I've found this tool to be of use - http://www.sysnative.com/niemiro/apps/SFCFix.exe. (In my experience if SFC can't fix it on a first run then it hasn't been able to fix it at all, although there may well be a benefit to running it multiple times - certainly no harm in trying.)

It's just managed to find and fix my SFC scan which was giving the old "corrupt files were found but SFC was unable to fix some of them" message, and this found and repaired them and generated a log telling me what it had done  so I'm impressed. At the very least it will give you a count of errors and an idea of the corruption present in your system, at best it will repair all this for you without any further input.

Reading through the thread I found this on (http://www.sysnative.com/forums/windows-update/12189-sfcfix-exe-zip.html) it looks like the tool might need a custom script to fix certain specific corruptions, which the sysnative forum and tool developer can help with, depending on what it finds, but if the corruption isn't bad it might be able to fix them without any further tweaking - mine only had 2 and it fixed them a treat, and SFC now comes up clear, so I hope this can be of some help to you... 

82

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 15, 2015, 04:46:47 am »

Ok, so the latest on my machine, which is a mixture of both good and not so good news...  (surprise!  )

On the plus side my machine is now up to date, seemingly, although every time I select all the Important updates and get them on there appear to be more next time I manage to check again!  weird, anyway, at least they're on, including IE11 which would never install before, just finished installing a couple of IE11 Security updates and a Windows Defender definition update which showed up after getting all the others on, then see if that does them all, again, with a further check......

Windows Features is still working, a bonus, and Shane's AIO Repair pre-scan is showing clear with No errors at all on the Package files, reparse points or Environment variables, which is super great!! 

So there's plenty of positives, thanks to all, however, there are still issues with updating I'm sorry to say. Every time I've managed to get any updates on, without fail, the machine would configure and restart ok (apart from once where it said Reverting changes), then upon rechecking it would throw up error 80080005 and not be able to check due to updates pending; also there would be a pending.xml present and SFC scan would not start due to reboot/repair pending, so I've had to go into Repair mode every time and manually rename pending.xml (can't do it within Windows!  ), then SFC scan would work, then I could reboot back into Windows and re-check successfully for updates, where it would always find more! I now have 4 or 5 renamed pending.xml files - do I need to keep them all? There's also a reboot.xml as well, what about this one?

Phew, also, and this may or may not be related, Windows Explorer keeps crashing, Regularly! Always after a restart when I open Control Panel to check for updates, and sometimes in the middle of just doing stuff (updating, browsing, etc) later as well. Plus the SFC scan is now finding file corruptions and is unable to fix some of them, which is how my machine used to be before the Repair install!  I've attached the CBS.log (which is now tiny after the repair!  ), but I can't see anything obvious in it pointing to which file/s might be at fault, and as I said the pre-scan is showing clear, so any ideas on what the problems might be with the Explorer, the SFC scan corruptions and the dodgy update/pending.xml loop problems please?

Tweaking.com - Windows Repair - Pre-Scan
Computer: T-PC (Windows 7 Home Premium 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1) (64-bit)
Started at (15/05/2015 12:22:59)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scanning Windows Packages Files.
Started at (15/05/2015 12:22:59)

No problems were found with the Packages Files.

Files Checked & Verified: 3,695

Done (15/05/2015 12:32:30)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scanning Reparse Points.
Started at (15/05/2015 12:32:30)

No problems were found with the Reparse Points.

Files & Folders Searched: 284,359
Reparse Points Found: 92

Done (15/05/2015 12:38:41)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checking Environment Variables.
Started at (15/05/2015 12:38:41)

No problems were found with the Environment Variables.

Done (15/05/2015 12:38:41)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Done (15/05/2015 12:38:41)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Done (15/05/2015 12:38:41)
Scan Complete - No Problems Found!

83

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 11, 2015, 11:23:50 am »

Ha, yeah, I know what you think I should do, and you're probably right, and a large part of me agrees with you too... I know I'm most likely just delaying the inevitable, but the persistent (aka stubborn!  ) old part of me is determined to get this machine back in good working updated order without having to re-install all the 100+ programs on it, and the repair install HAS finally been successful, so now I'm just hoping the updates follow suit and do their thing accordingly  I'm nothing if not hopeful.. At some point, when I ever get round to (or am forced to!) replacing the HDD, then I daresay I'll do a clean install, till then I'll do my best to keep this build up and running 

Anyway, from the RE I managed to rename the pending.xml no problem, then ran the offline SFC, and lo and behold it ran - and not only that but didn't find any integrity violations! Never saw that before the repair install, so Bingo on that one!
I'm assuming now that solution worked that I don't need the dism /revert command as well, or the HKLM registry tweak?

So, onwards with the updates, if it will let me - it got stuck opening up the WU page before on the Control Panel, and Autopatcher also got stuck installing critical updates as well before I switched it off in disgust, so let's see if restoring the SFC has done anything to the WU, if not I'll try that last bit of your message script and report back... happy troughing and good luck with the laptop! 

84

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 11, 2015, 05:01:32 am »

Ah I see, that would explain it! Not sure why it ignored my order to "Sleep" though, but it seems to have successfully installed most of the 150 WU it got up to before it stuck, but then it had a wobble when I rebooted and BSOD'd with error e9, then eventually started ok.

None of the updates are showing in Update History (it's blank), but when I go into Installed Updates there are 147 MS Windows showing, only 2 of which were there after the Upgrade, so the majority of them have gone on, which is promising 

Now to try get the rest on....  WU is telling me to restart to install important updates, but I just have done! It's in a restart to install loop I'm afraid, let's try rebooting again then...

Oh and before I forget - have tried to rename the pending.xml file while in Windows, and it won't let me do it from either Windows explorer (says Permission needed but then won't allow it) or using your dos commands (says Access is denied), so the SFC scan Still won't run - now saying system repair pending which requires reboot to complete, rather than Windows Resource Protection could not perform the requested operation, so still at a loss with that one....   

85

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 11, 2015, 02:22:05 am »

It didn't report anything for bad sectors, just said it had made a correction to the bitmap volume.

It's an all-in-one desktop (monitor with contained HDD etc), not a laptop, and I tried to leave it on Sleep mode so I could continue straight on this morning, but when I came down it was still on, and the updates had moved on to 150! Not sure how without my phone and no internet, but there you go - I reconnected my phone, hooked up the net, and it appears to be stuck on 150 (been on 3033929 for about half an hour now!) so I'm probably best stopping the installation and rebooting I guess, and seeing how the restart and continued updates go....

86

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 10, 2015, 04:56:00 pm »

Thanks again Boggin, but the immediate panic is over! 

No idea what happened to the machine, but even though all the restore attempts said they'd failed with that same 8000ffff error code, after the last one I rebooted (back into normal mode) and a pop up message said that the system had been successfully restored! It was the oldest of the points however, the repair install one, so now it looks like it did after the repair with everything in fresh W7 mode again, but of course I'm back to having all 183 important updates to install  so I've bitten the bullet and just kicked it off with them all ticked!  see what that does.

I did also do a cold boot/reset and a chkdsk /r on both C: and E: while I was in repair mode before the system restore, and no errors were found, although it did correct the volume bitmap on one of the drives...

Checked on the updates not long back, it was on 18 of 181 (for some reason not all the 183 were ticked so I left the 2 odd ones off), and there was a message box saying that the .NET framework 4.5 was being repaired and to leave setup running the NetFxRepair until it had finished! I presume one of the WU has kicked this off? Nothing else was running.. It's not the first time I've had .NET framework issues, having run the repair tool in the past to try resolve problems, so whether this was what caused the earlier weird text display problems, or whether it's a "new" update installation issue I don't know.  The repair's completed now and it needs restarting to get the .NET working correctly again, but as the updates are running along nicely (55 now) I think I'll leave it updating for the minute and turn it off when I go to bed, hopefully interrupting the updates won't cause problems, we'll see...

87

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 10, 2015, 11:44:05 am »

Ok thanks for that info, just trying to get all the WU's on first before I put the drivers back on. Unfortunately I seem to have hit a major snag and now my machine looks rather screwed! 

I got about 50 updates or so on, then after a reboot tried to check for updates and it threw up error 80080005 (something to do with corrupted dll's which can be sorted by running SFC) and couldn't check. Tried the SFC and it gave the same error (couldn't perform the requested operation), so I remembered your comment about trying it in Safe Mode and thought I'd try that, after first trying it in Repair/offline mode. Booted into repair mode, Startup repair couldn't find any errors to correct, then tried an offline SFC - said it couldn't scan due to a pending reboot!  Tried a reboot but made no difference. Anyway gave that up and went into Safe Mode and then discovered all the text is missing from Windows! The Users names are missing from the logon screen, the button which says Switch Users is blank, and once I go into Windows all the desktop icons are blank! The Windows orb also doesn't do anything. I've also tried going back into Normal mode to see if it's just Safe mode but it's the same in either. I got task manager up using the hotkeys but there's no menu or options on it, although the tabs all show text on them (programs running, processes running etc)

Any idea what could have caused it or how to get it looking ok again? Literally the only thing I've done is install WU after the Upgrade - I've just tried doing a System Restore to prior to the last set of updates and it's failed with )x8000ffff, so I'm going to try a different one (there's only 3, the Repair/Upgrade and 2 WU restore points, so I'm limited but I'll try them all), unless anyone's got any other ideas on what the hell might be wrong with it....

88

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 09, 2015, 10:04:20 am »

Yes the internet seems to be working ok - I've just updated SuperAntiSpyware defninitions without any problems, so I'm now going to try and update using WU - it's found 183 Important and 11 optional updates to install!!!  :cry:jeeez, just going through the list and trying to figure out which ones to install first as I'm out later and can't leave it running/connected, so maybe I can get a few of the smaller/more important ones on before I go...

I did wonder about the drivers I backed up - do I just merge the folders and replace any existing drivers in Windows with the ones from my backup? Not sure of best way to do it. Will this sort my Avast issues out? Tried it again but it gives the same error as before. Also tried running an SFC and it says beginning verification phase then stops after a second or two with Windows Resource Protection could not perform the requested operation! 

89

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 09, 2015, 09:27:12 am »

Ha yeah, you're probably right, but I naively thought that the repair install would be quicker, easier and less hassle than a full factory reset or clean install, little did I know 

Anyway it's all moot now as I've managed to get the repair install to (finally!) work! I can barely contain myself!!  I've had a busy week but after the last failed attempt, I got a few updates on using various methods but still no joy with the upgrade. I then decided to re-run the MS SURT, followed by the All In One Repair in safe mode, after this the WU were still working and showing 28 + 3 optional but none of them would install (usual story). I also changed the owner of the CBS registry key back to Trustedinstaller (from Admin) after something I read of yours Boggin which prompted me to check it, as I've done that MSI registry key fix myself in the past and it was all there ok apart from the Ownership.
Then having exhausted my ideas of what to change I thought it might be time to try the upgrade install again, firstly with the Home premium, which again got stuck, so I tried one of the first pair of Universal disks again and let it rip and went right through to the end! Holy *&$£ man!! 

I'm just in the middle of trying to figure out what I need to do now to get everything working normally again and back to how it was - so far I can see my desktop themes are different, appearance is different (I had aero and other effects off before for better performance), Avast has been turned off for some reason and won't start again, either with the shortcut or with the Action center button - it says the side by side configuration is incorrect! Any idea what I need to do to get it going? The Windows Features box is now visible again after a long time not working, woohoo, and WU appears to be still working, but failed on error 8024001B when I first tried it (update needed to update!), so I've rebooted and tried again, currently "Checking for updates........). Also when my Glasswire connected the first time it came up with a big list of about 10 different items which have all been removed! - do these need replacing or are they all redundant? (I can write the list down if needed, network adapters/drivers by the look of it)

Other than those few niggles all looks to be good, hopefully I can ge the AV back on now and get the WU's all up to date and then the job's a good 'un!! 

90

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 04, 2015, 02:03:56 am »

It's a new one on me as well! If it has happened before then I'm certainly not aware of it or what it means, I've had a look in the C:\Boot directory and there's no files of that name, either .0001 or .0002, unless it's in the offline C: (which isn't visible in Windows, it's the Dell first boot/diagnostic partition I believe).

In Windows my OS is C:\ - is this what you mean by "active drive"? All my progs, settings and OS are there, so I presume that's where the installation is going, and I also have an E:\ partition where I keep all my data and libraries. When booting offline or by CD the C: becomes D:, the hidden one becomes C: and the E: stays as is. In addition to the new folders on my C: drive, there's also a WINDOWS.~BT folder on my E: drive with several folders in, over 12,400 files and taking up 2.3 Gb of space!!  In contrast, the UPGRADE.~OS folder on my C: drive has only 400+ files and 98 Mb of space, not sure why it's put the other on my E: drive... 

Anyway, the chkdsk has repaired some errors on my bitmap volume on E:, if the suspect bit of disk is now marked as "bad" then hopefully it can't cause any further errors? Although I know what you're saying, potentially it could spread and the HD could go at some point..  For now though it's back up and running ok again, so I'm checking out the update situation again with the hope of getting as many as I can on and then giving the upgrade repair another shot! 

91

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 03, 2015, 02:17:59 pm »

Oh yeah, if I don't recognise it, but I've seen 80073712 loads of times and know it's related to the the CBS/registry being corrupt. MS says SURT or SFC to fix the error, but we've tried those unsuccessfully already during this process...

My joy at geting the WU working again was shortlived however, as on reboot I got a BSOD with 9e error, then when it wouldn't boot into Windows I went into the install disk to get to the recovery/repair menu, and on running startup repair I got the message 'Windows Codename "Longhorn" Preinstallation Environment (recovery) Path $WINDOWS.~BT\Windows Partition =E: Copy saved as C:\Boot\BCD.Backup.0002'!!! Like, wth does all that mean??? 

I'm currently running a chkdsk/r on my E:\ drive, which has found some bad clusters to replace, but other than that I'm not sure what to do other than try reboot again once it's finished, and no idea at all on the strange repair message! 

92

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 03, 2015, 11:36:24 am »

? Not sure which reboot prompts I haven't followed - thought I'd rebooted every time I've been told!  maybe we've misunderstood each other, but either way things are definitely improving, although it has bombed out again but right at the end of the upgrade this time, nearly 100% of the way through the last stage of transferring files and settings, dang. 

On restore to original version though, the updates are still showing in Control Panel WU, so that's a positive! Trying to go through some of them now, a few at a time, as I tend to find (in the past!) that asking it to do a heap all at once is often what caused problems, so I'm doing it steadily just to see. If I can get a few more on then maybe one of them will just help the repair upgrade over that final hurdle  , or maybe I won't even need it! 

Quick update (arf!) - 1 of the 3 .NET updates was successful - the most recent, the other 2 error 80073712 (corrupt CBS). Just trying a handful more Windows & Security updates now, see how those go... 4 of 5 have installed! The 1 failed with 80073712 again, time to post, reboot & try a few more..

93

General Computer Support / Re: prescan errors/ sfc cant run. no % progress

« on: May 03, 2015, 10:08:08 am »

I've had this in the past - I believe it was due to either malware or a corrupt registry (or both!)

I managed to solve it by re-activating Windows using the 25-digit Microsoft activation number - do you have this? It should be on the System page of Control Panel, or can be extracted using Belarc Advisor if not. Once you have it you need to type slui.exe in the Run box and run this, entering the code when prompted.

Worked for me anyway, unless anyone has any other advice, hope this helps... 

94

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 03, 2015, 04:17:49 am »

Yeah, I kinda thought you might say that! 

It might come to that, but all is not lost yet, however, as yesterday I managed to install a few updates through both PortUp and Autopatcher, and then tried the 2nd Universal disk again - same error as last time (non-specific, updates required etc). Then today I'm running the second of the second lot of Universal disks, currently on the Gathering files section (no harm in trying them all!), and just happened to look at the Windows Update Control Panel (which earlier was showing the usual red warning and Check for Updates message), and lo and behold it's showing the Download and install updates for your computer message (see attached) - 32 important and 2 optional!! This is the first time I've seen this "working" or at least displaying properly in a loooong time!   

I'm reluctant to press install though as the Upgrade is still running and I want to see how far that gets, but something with the either the duplicate install disk, the alternative update programs or one of the updates installed (I got 4 on yesterday  ) has somehow got the MS WU prog to work again, so I'll carry on checking the progress of the repair and post back, fingers crossed...

95

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 02, 2015, 03:00:37 am »

Ha, well, because "doing what the message says" ie. the getting updates bit, is the main reason I'm here in the first place! That and the missing package files from the pre-scan - trying to update just sends me round in a "Windows Update needs to install an update" loop with the 80073701 error, so if installing an update is a pre-requisite of getting the repair install upgrade to work then I appear to be stuffed! 

Gave it a go anyway, got the usual messages as attached. I'll have a go with PortUp, PatchMyPC and APUP (and any others you might know about!  ) and get back to you, but I'm not holding my hopes up as they very seldom manage to get any updates installed, apart from the odd Defender definition update, .NET update, and Very occasionally  an Actual Windows or Windows Security Update!! 

96

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 01, 2015, 04:23:31 pm »

Ah I see. not sure why the HP disk wasn't working but the second Universal disk has failed as well  different error to the first Universal one though (see attached) - no specific error, just a generic "Can't continue, reboot, get updates" message.

Don't have a small USB stick I can use to create a boot ISO from just at the moment, could maybe get one next week some time... Sigh, any more ideas other than just rebooting and trying again (although that's always worth a try)  ?

97

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 01, 2015, 02:11:45 pm »

Hmm, well the DVD drive seems to be ok, and the disk looked fine, but I tried it again after a reboot and it got stuck "Copying Windows files" at 65% and eventually gave the 80070017 error again, so I presume it's stuck at the same place again and can't copy something from the DVD..  oh well.

Not one to give up, I tried one of the 2nd Universal disks, and this one differs from the 1st (pair) in that it asked me for the version of Win 7 to install, which the first one didn't, so I chose Home Premium and it seems to be running ok  well the first one did as well, right up to the last stage, so who knows! Anyway it's on the second stage right now, gathering files, settings & programs, and hasn't stuck yet, so fingers crossed (Again!)...   

98

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: May 01, 2015, 01:16:08 am »

No, neither can I, although I'm not overly surprised given the trouble I've had with the machine over the last 18 months (mainly with WU)  but it actually gets worse - that was the second time I'd tried the new Home Premium disk - the first time it said it couldn't create a system folder or something with error 80070005, so I rebooted then I got that one mentioned above, anyway rebooted again and got it going this time, but when I came back to it it had bombed out Again, this time with error 80070017 (see attached)

I was wondering - do you think the original (failed) repair I did with the first Universal disk you sent has done something which is causing this repair disk to fail?? After that attempt I had extra folders on my C: drive ($UPGRADE.~OS, $WINDOWS.~LS, Windows.old) and had lost 2-3 Gb of disk space! Should I delete some/all of these before I give it another go - is there something that attempt has done which could be stopping this disk working, or something on the drive seeing as it got so close to finishing the repair? Just my thoughts, I'm not sure what else to do other than reboot and try again.... 

99

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: April 30, 2015, 03:44:17 pm »

Ah ok, thanks, will do - don't think I've backed them up  yet! 

It came up with an error actually saying it had to be rebooted due to system files having to be reset or some such, so I'm going to have to try again.... 

100

General Computer Support / Re: Missing Windows Servicing Packages files & update problems

« on: April 30, 2015, 12:08:47 pm »

Got them this morning actually Boggin, so thanks again and good on ya old bean! 

Also uninstalled the WSE 3.0 .NET thing as it's apparently obsolete, and can always be reinstalled if I ever need it (unlikely), so a quick disk cleanup and recheck of the Win7 Upgrade Advisor is now completely clear! 

Now I'm just going to reboot, turn the AV & firewall off and then give the Home Premium disk a whirl, watch this space (in several hours that is, or probably tomorrow given the hour... )